C-Command Software Forum

Moving to local folder & gmail

Howdy all!

Using GMail, SpamSieve 2.8.4, Mail.app 4.4 & IMAP under OSX 10.6.6…

I’ve just switched to Mail.app and IMAP after about 20 years of using Eudora and POP. I’m finding the transition a little rocky, but at least SpamSieve is still rocking!

I’ve noticed a behavior that is troubling me and I don’t know if it’s a setup problem, or just the way things are supposed to work. I like how Gmail’s server-side filters catch the bulk of the really nasty spam. I can check Gmail’s spam folder via Mail–no problem.

I use SpamSieve to catch the ‘wanted’ spam–bulk marketing emails, etc. etc. I think I’ve followed the instructions for setting things up properly. Most of the bulk mail is properly caught and transferred to a “Junk” folder “On My Mac”. Training moves messages to that folder appropriately. Mail’s built-in junk handling is turned off entirely. I generally delete the messages after scanning them. Everything seems to be working fine within Mail itself.

My problem is that the ‘wanted’ spam shows as unread AND unlabeled when looking at my mail using Gmail on the web. It is NOT deleted, nor is there any ‘Inbox’ label applied to the messages.

Is there any way to configure Gmail, Mail, and SpamSieve to continue to sort my ‘wanted’ spam, yet delete it online when I delete it from within Mail.app?

Thoughts and suggestions welcome!

Someone else may know more about this, but my understanding is that Apple Mail doesn’t delete the messages in Gmail until you empty the trash.

True. But to me it looks like the root of the problem is that when SpamSieve moves the junk mail to the junk folder specified in the settings (ie. a folder named ‘Junk’ located ‘On my Mac’), that the proper IMAP commands are not sent to mark the message read/deleted/moved/etc. Therefore, when looking at the web interface to Gmail, the ‘All Mail’ folder shows all of the messages that SpamSieve has caught as spam as both unlabeled and unread, no matter what I do to them from within Mail.app.

I’d like to find a way to configure everything so that when SpamSieve catches a message, that message’s ultimate fate is reflected when looking a Gmail through the web interface–regardless of whether I read the message, save and file the message elsewhere, or delete the message.

Any ideas?

What evidence do you have that the IMAP commands are not sent? Mail seems to do this for regular IMAP accounts, and it treats Gmail as IMAP, so I assume that it’s doing the same with Gmail but that Gmail is sometimes ignoring them. (On my Mac, it sometimes moves the messages, sometimes not, both for messages moved by rules and messages dragged manually.)

“All Mail” is designed to show all the non-deleted messages, except those in Gmail’s Spam mailbox.

Try changing your SpamSieve rule in Mail to have it move the messages to Gmail’s Spam mailbox.

No evidence at all :slight_smile: I am supposing that what I’m encountering is that user expectations are not in line with how things are actually working :slight_smile:

Try changing your SpamSieve rule in Mail to have it move the messages to Gmail’s Spam mailbox.

OK. I will try creating a new mailbox/label on the Gmail server to move the SpamSieve-caught messages to.

I guess I’m still a little confused by some things in the user manual. Clarifications welcome on the following:

  • In Section 3.1 “Setting up Apple Mail”. Step 2 has the user setting up the filtered destination as a local mailbox. Why? What are the consequences of setting the destination to a remote IMAP mailbox? (As I am going to try above.)

  • In Section 5.5 “Customizing Apple Mail”. When I walk through the options, I have now:

  • Typed in the name of the new IMAP mailbox I’ve created. This is definitely the one I want to send messages to when I ‘Train as Spam’
  • What option should I select about storing ‘Train as Spam’ messages? Server? I’d love it if you can explain this option a little more fully (and the consequences of each choice).

Thanks for your help!

No, I’m suggesting that you use the pre-existing Gmail spam mailbox, which should appear in Apple Mail as [Gmail]/Spam.

A local spam mailbox is faster and doesn’t count towards your server quota (probably not an issue with Gmail).

If you click “Yes” for “local spam mailbox” it will look for the mailbox under “On My Mac.” If you click “No,” which I think is what you want in this case, it will look at the top level of the first IMAP account. Since Gmail by default puts some of the mailboxes inside a [Gmail] folder, you would need to set the IMAP path prefix in Apple Mail to [Gmail] so that the “Spam” mailbox appears at the top level.

Here’s what I’ve done. It seems to work as expect (and even better, as I want) :slight_smile:

  • All of Mail.app’s Junk Mail handling is turned off.
  • In the ‘white’ [Gmail] folder, I created a mailbox/label called “Bulk Mail”. It appears on the same level as the Gmail “Spam” mailbox.
  • I pointed my SpamSieve rule to the new “Bulk Mail” mailbox
  • I walked through the SpamSieve message options, and set them to:
  • ‘Train As Spam’ mailbox = [Gmail]/Bulk Mail
  • ‘No’ to storing in a local spam mailbox when trained as spam
  • ‘No’ to marking messages read when trained as spam

What this configuration appears to accomplish for me is many-fold:

  • The spam filters at Gmail catch what they catch and it ends up in the Gmail “Spam” mailbox. I can see this spam in both Mail.app and the web interface if I want, and move it to the trash, then delete it from either application.

  • SpamSieve catches my solicited bulk email (as I’ve trained it to do over the years). It moves the bulk email into my “Bulk Mail” mailbox. As with the genuine spam, I can see it while using either Mail.app or the Gmail web interface. If I want to save it, I can file it further. If I want to move it to the trash and delete it, it works from either application.

  • I can collapse the disclosure triangle by the white [Gmail] folder in my mailbox hierarchy and not have to see either of my Spam/Bulk Mail folders, yet the message counter warns me when there is new stuff to evaluate.

I’m not sure what will happen with this configuration if I set an IMAP prefix from within Mail.app, but since everything seems to be working as I want it to–I’m not going to mess with success!

Thanks for helping sort through all the various options!