C-Command Software Forum

Removing email identified as spam from Inbox

I live in MD and, via desktop screen sharing, I am trying to help a senior in Florida, who is plagued with a ton of spam, set up SpamSieve.
I have walked her through the SS directions 3.1 and have set up everything on her computer (2012 15" MB Pro running Mojave) according to those directions.
She has begun to go through her inbox making incoming Spam as Spam and it is going into the Spam folder we created. However - all those emails she has identified as Spam are also still sitting in her inbox. I thought by declaring certain emails as Spam, they would moved to the Spam folder AND deleted from her Inbox. Have I missed some step. Thanks.

Yes, normally the Train as Spam command moves the messages to the Spam mailbox. This can be adjusted using the Change Settings command. If it’s already set to move the messages but they are being copied instead of moved, that could indicate a problem with Mail or the server. Is the Spam mailbox located On My Mac or on a server? Do the messages properly move to that folder if you drag and drop them?

Thank you very much, Michael. I plan to have an online session with her tomorrow at 10:00. I will check out Change Settings . And yes, we were careful to name the new folder Spam and create that folder On My Mac as instructed. I don’t believe we have dragged any spam messages from her inbox to her Spam folder; she has been doing that by selecting the incoming email and using the Spam Sieve keyboard combo to declare it as Spam.

Hi Michael -

Back again.

  1. I screen-shared with the senior this a.m., and when we tried to drag and drop an email which she considered as spam from her Inbox to the Spam folder, it could not be done; the email “bounced” back to her Inbox.

  2. We then went to Change Settings and carefully went through each choice, one by one.

  • Which mailbox should spam messages be moved to when you use “Train as Spam”?
    We chose Spam
  • Should messages marked using “Train as Spam” be stored in a local spam mailbox (rather than on the server)?
    We chose Local
  • Should “Train as Spam” mark the messages as read?
    We chose Yes.
  • When you use “Train as Good” on a message in the spam mailbox, should the message be moved back to the inbox?
    We chose Yes.
  • When you use “Train as Good” on a message in the spam mailbox, should the message be marked as unread?
    We chose Yes.
  • Should incoming spam messages be colored according to how spammy they are (darker means more spammy)?
    We chose Yes.

After doing this, all the emails she had identified as spam were indeed in her Spam folder, on her Mac, but the same spam emails remained in her Inbox.

Did we make any wrong choices in Change Settings??

It would appear we are doing something wrong. Any suggestions on how to fix this would be gratefully accepted.

It doesn’t sound like you’re doing anything wrong, but it sounds like Mail is for some reason copying the messages when it’s asked to move them to the local Spam mailbox.

Do the messages properly move to that mailbox if you drag and drop them?

It may help to do a complete rebuild of Mail’s database or possibly work around the problem by using Change Settings to specify a Spam mailbox on the server.

It doesn’t sound like you’re doing anything wrong, but it sounds like Mail is for some reason copying the messages when it’s asked to move them to the local Spam mailbox.

Do the messages properly move to that mailbox if you drag and drop them?

Thank you Michael, they do not, which baffles me.

It may help to do a complete rebuild of Mail’s database or possibly work around the problem by using Change Settings to specify a Spam mailbox on the server.

In the SS instruction manual, I just found this: 7.13.10 How can I rebuild Apple Mail’s database? l.

To quote:

First, try a quick rebuild. Select the problem mailbox, go to the Mailbox menu, and choose Rebuild.

In our case I presume the problem mailboxes are the three inboxes and the Spam folder.

In her Inbox she has accounts for iCloud, Yahoo, and Gmail. Unless you advise to the contrary, I will Rebuild these one after the other, rebuild the Spam mailbox, quit and restart Mail and see what happens.

If that doesn’t fix that problem, then I’ll take your suggestion to specify a Spam mailbox on the server.

If specifying a Spam mailbox on the server works, should I then delete the Spam mailbox currently set up at On My Mac?

Many thanks.

That is very unusual. Does he have any other Mail plug-ins installed?

I would skip the regular rebuild of individual mailboxes and do the complete rebuild described below on that page.

Yes, you could do that after updating the SpamSieve rule in Mail to use the other mailbox.

However, the fact that you can’t even drag and drop messages makes me think something is seriously wrong, so I would lean towards trying to fix that (e.g. by doing something more drastic like completely resetting Mail’s files) rather than looking for a workaround.

AFAIK, she has no Mail plug-ins, but of course I will check.

Would you recommend trying first to move the Spam folder from On My Mac to a server or go directly for the nuclear option and do the complete rebuild??

First I would do the complete rebuild, because moving the mailbox would not fix the underlying problem. The nuclear option would be resetting Mail’s whole container.

Understood. Will do that next session and report back. Continued thanks for your patience and guidance.

Hey Michael -

Back again. YOU are the man. Your guidance and advice was spot on. We took the nuclear option by deleting

/Users//Library/Mail/V7/MailData/Envelope Index

and now all appears to be working perfectly. By the time her 30-day trial is over, I am sure she is going to pay up and stick with SpamSieve.

One more, if you have the time Michael. On my MBPro running Mojave, just as she is, I tried going to this file…

/Users//Library/Mail/V7/MailData/Envelope Index

…only to find that it did not exist. I thought I would save these instructions in case I had a serious problem with mail.

I got as far as the multiple Envelope files shown here:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vUo6A5y-um59V6N10_YawMwJS4DEQzVK/view?usp=sharing

Which of those envelope files should I drag to the trash to accomplish what was accomplished on her computer?
Many thanks,

Great! Thanks for the follow-up.

All of them. The ones with .tmp in the name are probably leftovers from a failed update. And you want to delete the -shm and -wal ones, too, because they are part of the same database as the Envelope Index.

A very quick one, if you would.

When she launches the applicationSpamSieve, we both noted that in the Dock there is sometimes a red numeral next to it; so far either a 1 or a 2. After opening SS, it is not readily apparent what those numerals refer to.

Thanks.

It’s the number of new good messages.