Spam still appears in Spam folder of my email/web domain provider

[tokyoprogressive]

Note: the forum says I sent this message already, but I don’t see it. I first entered without being logged in. So I logged in and hit the back arrow and tried to send, but got that weird message. Hope this time it works.

Hello. I just bought the program today after trying for two days. I like it. before my email domain provider’s spam filter failed o catch everything. Now most stuff is caught, and I train the program to
recognize the good stuff.

The problem (If it IS a problem):

Spam Sieve is working. But I also found Spam messages in my Spam box on my IMAP account. Which is good that they were caught, but what I am confused about is why they all did not go into Spam Sieve.

SpamSieve is at the top of the list in the rules, which only contain two checked ones from Apple (News from Apple, identical rules it seems) and an unchecked one from my previous university.

Could it be they are filtered at my provider’s side before being sent?

I know they use a program called SHIELD but not sure if that is applied to my account or only as a premium service. Waiting for their answer.

I think my Mac was off at the time. I don’t know how that affects things. My IPad was being charged. The email program may have been open, but I did
check the messages there.

I read you have to set for each of your domains in a thread here, but not on the instructions from SpamSieve. So i assume that settings apply across the board.

1. That is ONE question…why Spam is going to two places, my provider’s and Spam Sieve Spam folder.Oly Spam Sieve is on my Mac The provider’s is on the Imap account,
2. Another question is can I just use the Apple menu MOVE TO FOLDER rather than the Spam Sieve Train as Good/Bad? Especially the TRAIN AS BAD takes forever if I select a lot of messages, say 100 or so.
3. Must I keep message in my Spam box or can I delete them. Does having them serve a useful purpose.

Details about my MAC setup:

Mac 10.9,2

SpamSieve 2.9.15

Mail 7.2

Only installed on my Mac.

I use an Ipad as well with the same Imap configurations but have not checked it for mail so often.

I am using for my main one from my webhost/email domain (tokyoprogressive.(ORG) and arenson.(ORG) provider. I also use for mac (icloud) mail. And a few more.
Google mail is also forwarded to my main domains.

Thanks,

Paul (tokyoprogressive)

[Michael_Tsai]

@tokyoprogressive

Note: the forum says I sent this message already, but I don’t see it. I first entered without being logged in. So I logged in and hit the back arrow and tried to send, but got that weird message. Hope this time it works.

Your first post went through correctly. It’s just that posts from new forum users require moderator approval in order to prevent spam in the forum. So in the beginning you will not see your posts appear right away.

@tokyoprogressive

I read you have to set for each of your domains in a thread here

Sorry, but I don’t know what this is referring to.

@tokyoprogressive

1. That is ONE question…why Spam is going to two places, my provider’s and Spam Sieve Spam folder.Oly Spam Sieve is on my Mac The provider’s is on the Imap account

Yes, they were probably caught by your mail server’s filter before they got to your Mac and SpamSieve. Please see the How should I configure the junk filter on my mail server? page for more information.

@tokyoprogressive

2. Another question is can I just use the Apple menu MOVE TO FOLDER rather than the Spam Sieve Train as Good/Bad?

No. Just moving the messages will not train SpamSieve.

@tokyoprogressive

Especially the TRAIN AS BAD takes forever if I select a lot of messages, say 100 or so.

How long does it take? Is the delay when it’s coloring the messages and SpamSieve’s Dock icon is flashing, or is the delay after that when it’s moving the messages?

@tokyoprogressive

3. Must I keep message in my Spam box or can I delete them. Does having them serve a useful purpose.

Please see the Can I delete spam messages that are in the spam folder? page.

[tokyoprogressive]

Quote Originally Posted by tokyoprogressive
I read you have to set for each of your domains in a thread here

YOUR RESPONSE
Sorry, but I don’t know what this is referring to.

RESPONSE TO YOUR RESPONSE
Maybe I misread. I set up my MAIL program, which has multiple accounts–Goodge, Work, and my own 3 domains. I set up spam sieve once. But somewhere I read you have to set it for each account. I guess and hope not.

YOUR RESPONSE TO MY COMMENT ABOUT MY PROVIDER’S SPAM FOLDER AND SPAM SIEVE BOTH GETTING SOME OF THE SPAM
Yes, they were probably caught by your mail server’s filter before they got to your Mac and SpamSieve. Please see the How should I configure the junk filter on my mail server? page for more information.

MY RESPONSE
It says:

“In most cases, SpamSieve will catch the same spam messages (and more), so the server spam filter is not providing much benefit. (Exception: If your Mac and SpamSieve will often be off or disconnected from the Internet, the server spam filter can help keep spam off your iPhone during that time.)”
Actual my provider, electric.embers.net confirmed they do use SHIELD and that it has a 1% false positive rate. they can up the spam catching they say, but it would result in more spam messages.

In fact, with Spam Sieve connected as well as SHIELD which is server side and I do not configure. SIEVE has caught or been trained to get 180 spams in three days.

Shield, in the same time period, has found 690. So it seems like in combination, they get almost all. I presume that SIEVE is catching the ones that SHIELD has been unable to find.

This is good. But if I could find a way to combine the mailboxes or move them to the same place so that I do not have to check both for false positives, that would be great.

YOUR RESPONSE
“Server spam filters are more likely to mistakenly classify your good messages as spam. Because the server filters the messages before they get to your Mac, SpamSieve cannot “save” you from these mistakes. In some cases, these good messages may be deleted sight-unseen or “lost,” only visible when you log into a special spam quarantine mailbox via a Web browser.”

MY RESPONSE
No problem with deletions… I get all spam in both their and SPAM SIEVE’S boxes. Together they get almost all the spam. I hesitate to disable, but perhaps I can ask them to do.

**
YOUR RESPONSE TO MY QUESTION ABOUT DELAY IN TRAINING SPAM.**
How long does it take? Is the delay when it’s coloring the messages and SpamSieve’s Dock icon is flashing, or is the delay after that when it’s moving the messages?

MY RESPONSE

Ok…am confused I guess. Selected one message in the SHIELD Spam box and trained it. It became gray instantly. But it did not move the spam from SHIELD. It only grayed it. Does it only move spam from my inbox and only color grey spam from other boxes, such as my provider’s SHILD Spam box. Wait, I checked another box not an inbox and not a SPAM box. I was able to train and it deleted. Is it because a message is marked SPAM in the SHILD Spam box? Is it being trained?

OTHER
I read you can make your IPAD MAIL program work with SS by making it all IMAP. Well, it is, but it does not help unless i first run my MAC before going out for the day or weekend. But I do not wantto keep my MAC on during 90 degree Tokyo weather (38C plus).

So I guess I have to live with spam that arrives once my Mac is shut off, right?

Thanks!

I appreciate the help.

[Michael_Tsai]

@tokyoprogressive

Maybe I misread. I set up my MAIL program, which has multiple accounts–Goodge, Work, and my own 3 domains. I set up spam sieve once. But somewhere I read you have to set it for each account. I guess and hope not.

For Apple Mail, you only have to create the one rule, and it will work for all the accounts.

@tokyoprogressive

Actual my provider, electric.embers.net confirmed they do use SHIELD and that it has a 1% false positive rate.

In my opinion, 1% is a very high false positive rate.

@tokyoprogressive

But if I could find a way to combine the mailboxes or move them to the same place so that I do not have to check both for false positives, that would be great.

You can set SpamSieve to use the same spam mailbox as your server’s filter.

@tokyoprogressive

Selected one message in the SHIELD Spam box and trained it. It became gray instantly. But it did not move the spam from SHIELD. It only grayed it.

Spam messages caught by the server are not SpamSieve mistakes, so they do not need to be trained as spam. However, if you do train them, the changing color indicates that the message was trained. If the message is already in a spam mailbox, SpamSieve will leave it there and not try to move it to a different spam mailbox.

@tokyoprogressive

So I guess I have to live with spam that arrives once my Mac is shut off, right?

Right. The server filter can still catch some of it, but SpamSieve can’t catch any while your Mac is off (except via Power Nap).