Protonmail & SpamSieve

Hi folks. I just moved a bunch of email addresses to Protonmail. It seems some of my SS is not filtering these obvious spam emails that are getting through.

Is there some kind of magic to this application? It seems I’ve tripped something that allows them through.

Any insight appreciated. Cheers

Which mail program are you using? Please see this page for how you can troubleshoot this.

Apple Mail. It seems to be falling into order now. I’ll keep an eye on it over the next week or so.

Thanks for the link. Cheers

OK, these messages are being marked as Junk. And they are not being marked as Read. So I’m not sure if this SpamSieve rule is working or not. The SpamSieve rule is at the top of the rules.

When I select them and choose SpasSieve - Train as Spam, nothing changes, including the non-read status.

Should I remake this rule?

The normal SpamSieve rule and training command do not mark messages as read. You can see whether SpamSieve is processing incoming messages or whether manual training is happening by looking at the log.

Ya I’ve been checking the log since the last post. Here’s one that arrived, but wasn’t marked as read, and wasn’t moved to the Spam folder:

Predicted: Spam (96)
Subject: January 2023: Shape Your Future-Self; Make a Positive Difference in Work; Use ABC for Charitable Donations
Identifier: ZxSpX2qoXE7yQJQrRIkiVA==
Reason: P(spam)=1.000[1.000], bias=0.000, R:^presentation-exc^com(1.000), R:^presentation-exc^com(1.000), x-authenticated-sender:newsletter@(0.999),,, x-authenticated-sender:-exc(0.999),,, S:Difference(0.999), x-pm-date:02(0.999), R:^72^52^138(0.998),, organization:Age(0.998), organization:Brilliantly(0.998),
Date: 2023-01-05 21:21:40 -0500 (EST)

Any suggestions?

Which mailbox did you find this message in? The log entry indicates that SpamSieve thought it was spam, so I would have expected Mail to apply the rule actions. Could you post a screenshot of your SpamSieve rule in Mail?

I have a handful of domains. This one is hosted on Protonmail. I’m finding that read/unread markers in aren’t keeping up at the moment. Not my favourite application, because the rules are horribly implemented amongst other things, but it’s what I’m using.

So sitting at my computer first thing today, Same issues.

Screenshot 2023-01-06 at 1.01.00 PM

Read/unread not updating could be due to an issue between Mail and the server or a problem with your Mail database that you could fix by rebuilding.

Recent versions of Mail sometimes have trouble moving messages to a local mailbox or one on a different server. I recommend switching from the Spam mailbox to the Junk mailbox (on each server) as described here.

OK, some strange things happening. How is it on one of my accounts, There are 3 unread in All Mail, 2 in Junk, but none in Inbox?

What were you expecting to happen instead? All Mail in Protonmail is a special folder that shows a separate copy of every message that’s in your other mailboxes. There may be a setting to hide All Mail from IMAP if you don’t like this.

At the moment, nothing is going to Inbox. I get messages in Spam and All Mail only. So my further rules don’t work for proper emails.

Second, these aren’t marking nor moving, even with a realignment to a Junk mailbox you told me to set it to, but now I see that only applies to a single Junk mailbox. There is no collective Junk mailbox.

Now I’m confused.

Correction: Not further rules, but Smart Mailboxes.

It’s not clear to me what you are trying to do/change. Are the messages in Spam spam or not?

It sounds like Protonmail (or perhaps another Mac or device accessing your account) is moving the messages out of the Inbox before your Mac sees them. This means that Mail will not apply the rules to them. If this behavior is undesirable, can you turn off whatever’s moving the messages to Spam?

Smart mailboxes can find messages in any mailbox, depending on how you configure them.

There should normally not be a visible Spam mailbox. If you see one, you should go to Mail’s Mailbox Behaviors setting for that account and set it to be the special Junk mailbox.

In the SpamSieve rule, you should choose the collective junk mailbox, which is called All Junk in recent versions of Mail, not the one for a particular account. If you want to see All Junk in the mailbox list of the main Mail window, you can add it as a favorite.

I’m looking at one right now, which is in All Mail for one of my domain accounts. It hasn’t moved.

The Mac sees them alright. There’s nothing else accessing this account. Again, this message isn’t moved to Spam. That’s the problem. And you recommended I change that to move it to Junk. That doesn’t happen either.

There is a visible Spam mailbox, which I was using as the catch-all. Some messages aren’t going there for some reason, and are not being marked as Unread. I’ll attach a screenshot of that mailbox behaviour.

I cannot see a mailbox called All Junk, nor Junk inside On My Mac. I do see the Spam folder though.

Screenshot 2023-01-10 at 11.01.51 AM

I think this is working as designed (by Protonmail). From what I’ve read, the way their All Mail works that it shows a copy of every message, even messages that have been moved out of the inbox. It even shows message that are in Trash (unlike Gmail’s All Mail). As I said, there may be a setting to hide All Mail from IMAP if you don’t like this. Or you could contact Protonmali if you have questions about how All Mail is intended to work.

Which mailbox are you finding these spam messages in?

Do you mean that they are arriving as read when you expected unread? Or that you did something that you expected to mark them as unread but that didn’t happen?

All Junk is not inside of On My Mac or any account. It appears in the separate Favorites section.

OK, but any Protonmail coming in is filtered by SS, correct? They should be marked read and moved. I don’t know where to look for that hiding of All Mail. Any suggestions? Even before Proton gets involved, SS should be able to see them as incoming. As long as that happens, all the Smart Mailboxes should behave just fine.

OK another slew came in since last post. They’re showing up in Junk for an account. BTW this is what’s called the Catch All account for non-viable targets to my domain. Seeing they go to this account as Junk, they also show up in All Mail for that account. As expected. However, seeing as they are marked accordingly, why hasn’t SS marked them as read and moved to whatever chosen folder I’ve set? It seems they’ve just showed up as spam (somehow) and just let sitting there.

My Favorites has two items: All Inboxes and All Sent and that’s it.

No, Apple Mail rules in general, including SpamSieve, only filter new messages in the inbox. (There are ways around that, but that’s the way things normally work.)

Perhaps in the IMAP settings in Protonmail?

That’s backwards—Protonmail is involved from the start and has already done its thing before your Mac and Apple Mail and SpamSieve get involved.

As I said, smart mailboxes should work fine in any case. You just have to set them up properly. If you can give a specific example of a smart mailbox and what is happening vs. when you expected to happen, I can make suggestions.

Most likely, Protonmail moved them there before your Mac saw them, so there was no further processing.

Please see the instructions that I linked for how to add All Junk.

OK I’ll chase up Proton. Cheers

OK they have their own spam stuff going on. So I’m getting messages in their Junk folder, and their All Mail folder, which is a smart folder. So SS never sees any of those. My inbox for those accounts, are empty, which is why SS doesn’t see any of that. I’ve turned off SS for the moment to see how it’s behaving.