C-Command Software Forum

Yosemite 10.10.2 - All mail going to Junk

Actually, that should read ‘All spam going to Junk’

I’m a long time SpamSieve user and apart from the occasional blip it’s always worked fine.

Today, however, I have noticed that mail that would usually get sent to Spam is ending-up in Junk.

I’ve checked junk mail filtering is off. I haven’t changed anything and there is no other Mac running Mail for this account. There are, however, a couple of iOS devices.

If I select all the messages in Junk and run rules, they get moved to Spam.

Any ideas gratefully received!

This is probably because of a server filter. Please see Why does the “Junk” mailbox appear in Apple Mail? and How should I configure the junk filter on my mail server?.

Thanks Michael

I don’t know what could have changed. I use iCloud mail, so it could only be a change on the server side - but as you note it’s not possible to modify iCloud’s server-side junk filter (which should, in any case, just be deleting mail altogether - rather than moving it to the Junk folder).

I think the only real option I have is to move all my Spam into Junk and to have SpamSieve send new spam there.

I’m not sure what you mean by “should” here. I have never heard of the iCloud filter not moving the messages to Junk.

What problem are you trying to solve? Would the Apple Mail - Server Junk Mailbox script help?

Michael

I have also experienced the same problem in the past 24 hours after years of fault-less sending to a Spam folder on my Mac. I use iCloud email addresses, one Mac as the Spamsieve control and out of the blue my ‘spam’ is getting moved to the Junk folder. I have not reconfigured any settings, have also checked that the Apple junk filter in Mail is off and that the other Mac does not have any conflicting rules. Any tips on where else to look as this sudden behaviour is unexpected and annoying. I can’t see any info on any changes by Apple on the server side that might conflict.

Let’s skip the first part (I was referring to the fact that Apple will silently delete mail that it considers junk, but that’s not the issue here.)

I am trying to find out why my spam is suddenly going to the Junk folder instead of the Spam folder. For years, all my spam has been moved by SpamSieve to Spam - even though there was already [an empty] Junk folder present.

I tried changing SpamSieve’s target folder to Junk, but that didn’t work - I just ended-up with two Junk folders!

I suppose I will have to give the script/rule a go, but it still doesn’t explain why things changed when they had been stable forever…

Same Problem
I am experiencing the same issue and it has happened in past 24 hours. For years my iCloud email has moved messages seamlessly to the Spam folder I created and then out of the blue they are now going to the Apple Junk folder. I have not changed anything on my machines and can see no reason why this change happened.

My set up is running Spamsieve on one Mac as the central control. There are two other Macs and various iOS devices that access the same mailboxes. Apple junk filtering is off on all Macs and the Spamsieve rule is enabled only on the main Mac.

Any suggestions on what might have happened or where to look. The behaviour looks like Spamsieve is doing the ‘sending’ rather than anything happening on the Apple server side.

Bernardharte: The same thing just started happening to me. Up to now the Spam was all going into the SpamSieve “Spam” folder, but a few days ago, everything is now going into the Junk folder. I am accustom to having a few emails show up in “Junk” from time to time, but this doesn’t seem right - ALL of the spam that was going to the SpamSieve “Spam” folder is now only showing up in the Apple Mail “Junk” folder.

Exactly the same as me - the occasional one would arrive in Junk, but now they all do. I suppose it’s possible Apple changed something. You don’t mention if you are using iCloud - if you are|are not, that might help with troubleshooting…

If you change the SpamSieve rule to use the server Junk mailbox (using the instructions here) you will not end up with two Junk mailboxes.

Apple is pretty secretive about the changes they make to their server filtering.

This should be easy to check. Any message that SpamSieve moved will have a “Predicted: Spam” entry in the log. If there is no log entry, then a server filter or another rule in Mail moved the message. My guess is that Apple just made its server-side filtering more aggressive.

Yes, I am using iCloud.

I did that and switched-off the Apple Mail - Server Junk Mailbox script rule that I’d tried earlier today, but which still left me with two destinations - and now it looks as though I have all my SpamSieve processed spam and Apple spam going to the server-side Junk folder. Net result is that it’s all going there instead of another one called Spam, but I have the same functionality.

Thanks for your help.

I think I spoke too soon. Now I have the default Junk folder in Apple Mail that’s getting some messages and the one which was originally called Spam (and which was the destination for SpamSieve) has now renamed itself to Junk as well.

I’m confused. I think I am going to restore from a backup to set myself back a few days and start over.

It sounds like you didn’t follow all the instructions to change to a server mailbox, so SpamSieve recreated the local mailbox when you trained some messages as spam.

I did, but somehow in the middle of all this, the version of Mail on the Mac (on which SpamSieve is operating) managed to get out-of-sync with the server - even though it appeared connected. Consequently, I was seeing one set of folders on the iOS devices and another on the Mac. I have my fingers crossed that now I have deleted the account and recreated it on the Mac, things will now proceed correctly.

I have been having this same issue with iCloud. Glad to know it’s not just me as it has been driving me nuts. Apple definitely has changed something to our detriment.

I already had SpamSieve set to use the Server’s Junk Mailbox, so all junk has been ending up the correct (same) place regardless of whether iCloud or SpamSieve marked it as junk. I haven’t been having a problem with iCloud marking good mail as spam, so I haven’t been running the Server Junk Mailbox script.

The issue I’m encountering is that I have the SpamSieve rule set to mark all junk it finds as Read. iCloud doesn’t mark spam as Read, so I’m now getting Unread mail badges on my Junk Folder whenever iCloud moves a message to Junk that (at least for me) are very distracting.

I wish the iCloud spam filter would just get the heck out of the way and let Spamsieve do its thing; however, I can live with not having a message marked as “You Marked this Message as Junk Mail” by SpamSieve if I could just find a way to mark stuff iCloud is moving to Junk as Read at the time it comes in.

Eric

In that case I would suggest going back to having SpamSieve use the Spam mailbox, and then you could use the Server Junk Mailbox script to move iCloud-caught messages to the Spam mailbox and mark them as read.

Pardon my Newb-ness
I am just wondering… If the mail that is being captured on the server side and sent to the Apple “Junk” folder is marked as “Not Junk”, can I then train it as spam with SpamSieve? It may be extra steps, but after a few days things would start to return to normal.

Is something like this possible, or would I just create more trouble?

Since both the SpamSieve and iCloud-caught junk messages were ending up in a unified Junk Mailbox on iCloud already, it wasn’t difficult to write a short AppleScript to mark all messages in that Junk Mailbox as read and assigning it to an Every Message rule as you suggest for the Apple Mail Server Junk Mailbox script. It works fine. The irritation I’m dealing with is that since Apple fiddled with iCloud’s junk filter I’m often receiving several iCloud processed junk messages, which iCloud doesn’t mark as Read, before I receive a legitimate message in my inbox that triggers the script, thus ending up with the badged junk mailbox for some period of time until a good message is received.

I think what I need is to find a way to run the script at a given interval whether I’ve received a good message in my inbox or not. I am running SpamSieve on my own local server that is on 24/7 so perhaps I can trigger my Mark Junk As Read script on a given interval using Launchd if the script will run outside Apple Mail’s sandbox. I know just enough about this to be dangerous. Is there perhaps a better way to run the script each time the Junk Mailbox is updated/queried/synced regardless of whether a good message has been received via the Inbox?

You can train it as spam, but this is not necessary (because the messages didn’t get through SpamSieve) and won’t help (because Mail rules such as SpamSieve do not process messages that arrive in a mailbox other than the inbox).

I recommend using the Server Junk Mailbox script because it can save good messages that iCloud’s filter put in the Junk mailbox.

The Server Junk Mailbox script has an idle handler, so that if you save the script as a stay-open application it will automatically run every 5 minutes even if no messages are received in the inbox. You could use this or adapt it for your own script. Launchd does run scripts outside the sandbox.